October 1999
Oct. 1
Hi Don,
It sounds as if you had quite a work session. Dick does not remember what #10 was used for. He drove #1 which he said was the field office.
How is the slide project coming along?
Louanne & Dick Kay
Comment from Don: This is the first time that I found out which Futurliner had the office. Apparently, the office Futurliner was a later addition. Douglas Dean, when he was here has a photo that he gave us that shows the office Futurliner in the distance.
Oct. 4
Dean, received a letter some time ago from Parader Renald E. Goyette and tonight got to talk to him. Had a great conversation with him about the PARADE OF PROGRESS and the Futurliner. He sent some color slides of the Futurliners including a night scene. He was in charge of maintaining the "American Crossroads" and he stated it was difficult to maintain. Later this year he going to stop at the museum in Chicago to view it again and then write to give us as much detail as he can about it. He took one of the units to NY for the Dave Garroway show in 1954 or 1955. The Futurliner broke down in what he called Pensiltucky. They had a new engine brought in from Pontiac and worked all night and still made the 9:00AM show the next day on schedule for the "Crossroads" exhibit.
Renald came on the Parade in 1954 and closed it in July of 1956. He then joined Detroit Diesel and spent 32.2 years with them.
The power display that supplied all the power for the Parade when set up was twin 6-71 200KW Detroit Diesel powered generators.
In the big tent they had a carbon arc spot light that he ran and it spotlighted the exhibits. They also showed a motion picture, which showed the new jet engines of that era. As he thinks of more things about the Parade. He will keep us informed.
He is a pilot and plans to fly over here one day and bring all his slides and other stuff.
Oct. 4
MONTREAL, QUEBEC TRIP
Went to Montreal to purchase parts from the people that restored a GM Futurliner and had a surplus. The folks here restored their Futurliner for the purpose of selling cell phones (FIDO). It is a business venture. They spent $300,000 (Canadian) in their restoration. They have done an outstanding job in the restoration however it is not restored to original and it has been restored to accommodate their specific needs. Modifications include:
Engine, transmission and drive-line different than original.
Modern electronics.
Modernized instrument panel.
Modern Honda generator.
Different colors. (No GM logos or Parade of Progress indication)
Many trim changes.
Do not use original hub caps.
The Canadians that restored this Futurliner have been most helpful in identifying things that they have had trouble with or are having trouble with. They have been very helpful in giving us original parts that they did not use in their restoration.
As they restored their Futurliner they had to have parts made. Fortunately for us they had originally planned on restoring two Futurliners. However, due to the cost and other business needs they only restored one. That gave us the opportunity to purchase their surplus newly manufactured part. Although the cost was high it cost the Canadians a lot to have these parts manufactured. We could not have had them manufactured in this country as cheaply as we purchased these parts. For some reason the local NAPA stores simply does not handle Futurliner specific parts. The parts we purchased were:
Windshield $5,000
Rubber molding $3,600 (Used around base of Futurliner as a bumper.)
Aluminum moldings $1,440 (Used around sides of Futurliner.)
Aluminum moldings $ 720 (Used between large moldings.)
Total $10,760
TRIP SUMMARY
Carol and I left on September 18 and headed for Montreal. I will not bore you with the dull ride from Zeeland to Oshawa, Ontario our first over night stop. The next two days we spent a little sight seeing around the 1000 Island region of eastern Lake Ontario on both the Canadian side and the New York side. We continued sight seeing in upper New York and the fourth evening stayed in downtown Montreal. Last year’s trip to Montreal we stayed outside the city and I was not going to fight that morning rush hour again.
They next morning we headed through the streets of Montreal to meet Mario Petit who has been my contact for the past 18 months on this project. Mario has been most helpful during all our contacts with the Canadians.
I was driving a short box pickup and had concerns whether I would get all the parts in the pickup. Mario, another person from their business, and myself worked two hours getting everything stuffed to the box of the pickup. In addition to the parts that we purchased we also had to put into the pickup the rear high/low/PTO transmission that they gave us. Although we got everything in the pickup the right rear spring was sitting on the frame. Well, I would just have to take it easy.
RESTORATION TIPS
Mario told me of some problems they have had since their restoration. The large side doors are very heavy and are hung on the top with 16' piano hinges and the bottom with hinge sections with a long 16' hinge pin. They noted that their doors were getting very hard to open. They ended up on the right side removing the doors and they found that since the restoration the hinges were rusting. To correct the problem they removed the long 16' hinge pins and replaced them with short stainless steel hinge pin and added grease fittings.
FIDOS ENGINE
In the process of research the FIDO Futurliner (Canadian) was the one given by General Motors to the Michigan State Police in 1959. The State Police used it as their Safeliner (another story). When I made my presentation to the Western AACA about the Futurliner Restoration Project one of the AACA members at the meeting remembers working at a local heavy truck garage and changing the engine on the State Police Futurliner to a later more powerful GMC V-6.
According to Mario their Futurliner came with 1965-1974 vintage 401 cubic inch V-6 engine. This would match up to the memory of the local AACA member.
CUSTOMS
Prior to leaving I called customs and inquired as to the procedure to get through US Customs. No problem I was told since I was carrying vehicle parts there would be no duty. A different story when I got there.
The first customs officer did not know what to do. He was inclined to just let me go through but decided to check with his boss. She was one to stick to THE RULES.
She said that I had to hire a broker fill out customs papers. Of course their offices are located right on site.
The first broker asked if I had an account. Of course not. She said the last time she did something unusual it took her 4 hours and she was leaving early that day. The second broker started with the question "Do you have an account? and with my answer she said forget it. I said what do I do? "Go next door." Been there! "Go two doors down." So off to #3.
I started with my tale of woe that I had already been to two brokers already. At least they were sympathetic and started working on the paper work. Each item that I was carrying from Canada to the US had to have a certain code. Once they got a code on everything the computer spits out the duty. First time through this process the duty cost came to $685. I said I was told there would be no costs involved. "Sorry that’s what the computer says." I explained the whole Futurliner restoration project and the fact that it was a volunteer project and even all the funds were from volunteers. So back to the computers the two ladies went. They changed codes to better match what we were doing. This time the computer comes close to $300. One of the ladies calls her boss and she suggests to look up codes on antiques. After another series of code changes the duty drops to $217.75 the best they can do. I just appreciated their diligence to work to get the cost down. This process took close to three hours with Carol sitting in the truck wondering what happened to me.
PETER PAN's FUTURLINERS
We spent the next couple of days sight seeing New Hampshire before arriving at our daughters in Conn. In Conn. while Carol and daughter went shopping I drove to Springfield, Mass. to Peter Pan Bus company who own two Futurliners.
I visited Peter Pan in April of 1998 and they were busy working to restore one of their Futurliner and use the other for parts. Their second Futurliner is not worth saving. They literally dug it out of the ground in New York state. It had been used as a living quarters in New York. Prior to that it was used by two different Christian preachers in New York City and Mexico respectfully.
Since April 1998 very little progress has occurred on Peter Pans Futurliner. Other business needs had stopped the project. However just recently the owner of Peter Pan Mr.. Peter Picknelly has decreed that he wants the Futurliner done by the spring of 2000. Like the Canadians, they intend on modernizing the Futurliner and making it a business venture for the Peter Pan Bus company. It will be painted the Peter Pan colors and have modernized power train and electric's.
I ended up spending parts of two days meeting with the person in charge of the restoration a Mr. Bill Sinico and Mr. Peter Picknelly. We basically agreed to cooperate in every why that we can in our restorations even understanding that our end results will be different.
I did spend some time in the shop talking to one of the men who had recently started working on the Futurliner and him giving me suggestions on different methods for repair of the rust. They have already cut out a lot of rust and replaced it with new metal. While there I took lots of photos of their Futurliner.
To purchase our parts we took our Futurliner account down to $46.18.
We completed our trip back to Zeeland without breaking the windshield or the springs on the pickup.
Oct. 14
FUTURLINER FRONT END PROBLEMS
I received a call from Mario Petit (FIDO Futurliner-Canadian) that they had experienced front end problems two weeks ago.
DESCRIPTION OF FRONT END MECHANICS
The front the the Futurliners have dual (side by side) steering wheels. Each wheel has its own set of brakes, brake drums and rides on its own bearings. During the FIDO Futurliner's restoration this front end was disassembled and new inner and outer bearings were installed.
FRONT PROBLEM
Mario driving the Futurliner noticed that the right front started to make a clunking and grinding noise. Upon disassembly, they discovered that a sleeve had broken due to lack of grease from their restoration. The hub area was completely dry of lubrication. They discovered that when you spin the outer wheel it has a small hole that will line up with a grease fitting that lubricates this area.
REPAIRS
Repairs were accomplished by taking the broken sleeve to a local machine shop and for $125 (Canadian) a new brass sleeve was made. Installation was relatively simple. In fact from breakdown to on the road again was less than 8 hours.
CATASTROPHIC FAILURE
If the noise that the Futurliner was making had not been investigated the bearings could have froze up resulting in an axle breaking.
LEFT WHEEL DISASSEMBLED
Subsequently the left wheel was disassembled and checked for lubrication. Although some grease was found it was not sufficient. However, no damage had occurred yet. The left side was properly lubricated and reassembled.
ORIGINAL ENGINEERING
In Mario's opinion if this area is properly lubricated it will last 50 years or more. His advice was very simple: this front wheel assembly MUST be taken apart and all components cleaned, inspected, all parts that show any wear replaced, then properly lubricated and reassembled. Both disassembly and reassemble is relatively simple.
The above information is for the purpose to add to our list of to do items in our restoration. It is a real benefit to have a running Futurliner in Canada where we are receiving excellent communication of their problems so we can hopefully avoid and not make the same mistakes. We will make enough mistakes of our own.
Oct. 24
Dean, yesterday the Michigan Classic Chevrolet Club stopped at our place on their fall tour. There were about 30 cars and 65 people. The oldest were two 1928 Chevys and on up to a late model Chevy Suburban. It was cold and the wind was blowing hard but they had a good visit with real interest in the Futurliner. One of the members was a retired State Police officer. He recalled when the Michigan State Police had a Futurliner. He said he also knows the driver that drove the Futurliner for the State Police. He is going to get me his address and phone number.
Oct. 24
Hi Don,
I have recently acquired some more vintage photos of the Futurliners. I have attached JPG graphic files of each photo below. The file name reflects the GM photographic number on the back of each photo. I found photo #76666-3 very interesting as it appears to have been taken in Detroit on Woodward Ave. (I can just make out the name on the street sign in the original photo, I think the cross street is Cadillac Pl.) The year appears to be 1946 as the parade float in front of the Futurliner is for the 1946 Soap Box Derby. If you don't have any of these photos already, please let me know and I will get copies made for you.
My progress on the model has been slow over the summer. Between my real job and other personal commitments I haven't been able to put as much time into the model as I would have liked. I attended a model car show in Toledo, Ohio in early October and displayed the unfinished model there. It generated quite a bit of attention. I had several request for kits of the model. I also met a couple of people who said they have pictures and information on the Futurliners and the POP. Both said they will try to locate the info. and get back to me. Hopefully something will come from these contacts.
I've also started putting together a web page where I will be placing information about the Futurliner and the POP. It's still incomplete, and I plan to add a section to this page documenting the building of the model. If you are interested, I would like to add a section on the restoration project as well. I think it would be a good place to provide contact information for the NATMUS museum and the restoration project. I don't want to put any references to the museum or the restoration project on my page without your (and the museum's) approval. I can use information from the mailings for page content if you like, or you could supply me with information you would like to have on the page, such as email and/or mail addresses for the public to use to contact NATMUS and the restoration group.
Joel, those are great photos and I do not have any of them. Yes need copies of them to add to our collection. It is interesting that one of the 1940 vintage Futurliners was used in 1946. This is the first time that I have found out that they were used after World War II before being modified in 1952 for the 1953 Parade of Progress.
I think I have given you copies of e-mails that we found out the right color red for the Futurliners. I even found a chip at Hershey. It is a 1953 Chevrolet red called Target Red.
I know that you have been busy however I really appreciate you working on that model. I plan to visit several GM plants in Indiana shortly to try to raise money for the museum for this project. Your model would really be helpful. Do you have any target date? Have you decided to still build a few completed units or are you just going to build the kits?
Your web page looks great. Yes we want mention of the project and my e-mail. I am sure that that is also ok with the museum. Check with Bobbie or John. I will send you a copy of a page we hand out to explain the project. I will include it on another e-mail.
Oct. 24
The following were here for the 10-19-99 work session:
Wayne Jackson (Wayne also recently received some color copies of the GM pamphlets that were used in the 1941 Parade of Progress from a person he talked to at Hershey about the project. Wayne is also the Chevy person who tracked down the color Target Red as a 1953 Chevy color.)
Del Carpenter, Connie DeJong (pronounced DeYoung) Connie is an excellent body man. We need lots of these. Jim Baker, Bruce Beimers, Jerry Siegler (Jerry belongs to the BCA and the AACA) He now knows what Futurliner rust is.) and Don Mayton
We focused again on removing rusted out metal panels. We also removed the large aluminum panels that hold the ribbed side panels in place. In addition Del and Wayne worked on power washing the spare transmission, engine, power steering pump and other accessories to the engine. Our short term goal is to get the Futurliner stripped to the point that we can get it sandblasted. As we continue to remove parts we continue to find more structural rust. However not much different that we observed in the photos of the Canadian or Peter Pan Futurliners.
Yesterday the Michigan Classic Chevrolet Club stopped at our place on their fall tour. There were about 30 cars and 65 people. The oldest were two 1928 Chevys and on up to a late model Chevy Suburban. It was cold and the wind was blowing hard but they had a good visit with real interest in the Futurliner. One of the members was a retired State Police officer. He recalled when the Michigan State Police had a Futurliner. He said he also knows the driver that drove the Futurliner for the State Police. He is going to get me his address and phone number.
Oct. 28
Today I had a meeting here at the house with Brian Deis and Len Dorne. The purpose was to find a source to sponsor the redesign and construction of the Futurliner's roof and the large overweight 16' doors. The roof is weak from the original design and since we must totally rebuild it we should correct it structurally. What we do to correct it will not affect the appearance of the Futurliner. The doors are simply too heavy for the roof and if we can lighten and strengthen them it will help in the roof problem. Brian and Len have a lot of contacts in the automotive and steel industry and they are going to try to identify potential sponsors on this area.
Oct. 30
Following are the people that worked on the Futurliner on 10-26-99:
Del Carpenter, Wes Myrick, Connie De Jong, Wayne Jackson, Bud Dinger, Bruce Beimers, Jerry Seigler, Don Mayton, Carol Mayton
We had a great volunteer crew
I included my wife's name as she has been making lunch for each of the work sessions. In fact Jerry said the only reason he comes is to eat. I might add that Jerry's wife Deloris provided brownies for our snacks and in the past Del's wife several times has sent with Del Jell-O salad. So our ladies are taking care of us.
Jerry and Connie tackled removing the rusted floor that is located inside the Futurliner as well as the rusted subfloor that is located under the storage area at the bottom of the Futurliner. this was a major job that required the use of the air chisel for almost 6 hours. Since then I have gone out and bought ear plugs for the crew. Jerry and Connie then proceeded to start the unbolting of the two 45 gallon gasoline tanks. By the end of the day the right tank was out standing next to the Futurliner.
Bruce and Bud removed the trim from around the front of the Futurliner just below the drivers cockpit. They then removed the two grill pieces that are located just below and slightly to the rear of the 1/4 windows. We discovered something new here. In the video of the Futurliner it appears that there is some sort of back lighting in the front and on the sides. In talking to past Parade of Progress participants there was no back lighting in the front. However as they were removing these grills they found light fixtures behind the grills that would shine a light through the grill to the outside. Almost every screw that had to be taken out had to be drilled or chiseled out.
Del, Wes and Wayne tackled the disassembly of the 3rd gear box (2-speed/PTO) that was donated to our project by the Canadians. When we received it it was froze up and would not turn. Upon disassembling it the reason it was frozen up was quickly discovered. It was full of water at one time and everything was covered with rust. Although the rust prevented it from turning or shifting as they disassembled it it was discovered it was only surface rust. With some cleaning, emery cloth, new bearings it should be as good as new as all the gears show no or minimal wear. The gear box is a Dana-Spicer 2-speed/PTO unit. The data plate states it was made for Yellow Truck (a GM division in the 30's).
